5 Yrs✓
MKami
5 Yrs✓
I'm not a native English speaker, but fair point and I generally just agree with the sentiment that the clearest descriptor is best or that an explanation is at least in a parentheses.
5 Yrs✓
MKami5 Yrs✓
I do think challenges should generally be ones you plan around, since if you're just playing a bunch of games and applying categories retroactively then it isn't a challenge, it's incredibly simple. Those challenges basically require you to know the plot of a game before you play it, which ruins the enjoyment of experiencing a story in many ways.
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"Generally" being the operative word. Having 1 or 2 categories like this actually enhances the challenge because you can't plan absolutely everything out in advance. If every single category is so rigid that it must be meticulously planned around then the "challenge" is only in the curation of a list at the start of the year, then setting aside the time to play. We need some sort of mix. Not 50/50, but at least some.
4 Yrs✓#
FrozenRoy
4 Yrs✓#
I still need to read all the messages but I agree that having some challenges that are not specifically planned around is Neat.
5 Yrs✓#
NoOne
5 Yrs✓#
Hey, I'm not good at planning anyways 🤭
I wasn't really trying to make a point, I think the challenges you proposed were good ones.
I think that's a good principle up to a point, but can be overdone. If for no other reason because not everyone participating in the challenge is necessarily going to plan every category and will instead play their 20-50 games in 2025 and fit them into categories as they go(like yours truly).
That's basically what I did for 2024 too, I just slotted my completions into places they fit into.
I was basically just pointing out the bgalon and finnedorb previously objected to having ideas like that.
But also, yeah. We've already decided on the challenge being a tiered one, so having games you can't plan around makes the challenge, yknow, more challenging for those going for all the challenges! That's a fine way to do the tiers too.
12 Yrs♥F$✓#
bgalon
12 Yrs♥F$✓#
Let’s talk a bit about planning.
NoOne made a valid argument that if you're are going for the bronze challenge, you can probably just play any 20 games and then slot them into the right categories. However, if you are going for the silver or the gold challenges you will need to plan because the remaining categories will give you limited options.
Let’s look at a category from last year: “A game containing a real or fictional religion”. Now, I knew a few such games, but I already played them before. Still, all I had to do was Google “computer games with religion” and find something that is either in my backlog or I would fancy to get.
The problems with categories like “games that surprised you” is that they are totally subjective. You can Google until tomorrow and what surprised another person might be the most unsurprising to you. I guess we can broadly say that if it’s subjective, then most of the times you can’t plan for it (there might be a few caveats here which I’ll talk about later).
Players who plays 52 games in a year and trying for the Gold challenge cannot afford to hope that they will find a game that surprises them. I suspect that some of us “convinced” ourselves that a game was more surprising than it was just to complete this category.
Now, let’s look at MeowZeDung suggestion:
#-1. A game with a gripping opening hook
#-2. A game with a great plot twist
#-3. A game with a shocking ending
Usage of the words “gripping”, “great”, “shocking” makes those categories subjective. If MeowZeDung suggested the category “A Game with a plot twist” than that is probably okay. You can research for a game with a plot twist – because the fact that there is a plot twist is not subjective, it’s just might not be a great one.
Saying that, you can probably get away with many subjective categories by not making them personal. Saying something like “A game that is considered to have a shocking ending” might be okay (I really don’t like this, but I’m not the one deciding which categories are okay). If you can point to a discussion where everyone remanence about “how shocking was the ending in game xxxyyy”, then the game might be valid, even if personally you found the ending tepid.
NoOne made a valid argument that if you're are going for the bronze challenge, you can probably just play any 20 games and then slot them into the right categories. However, if you are going for the silver or the gold challenges you will need to plan because the remaining categories will give you limited options.
Let’s look at a category from last year: “A game containing a real or fictional religion”. Now, I knew a few such games, but I already played them before. Still, all I had to do was Google “computer games with religion” and find something that is either in my backlog or I would fancy to get.
The problems with categories like “games that surprised you” is that they are totally subjective. You can Google until tomorrow and what surprised another person might be the most unsurprising to you. I guess we can broadly say that if it’s subjective, then most of the times you can’t plan for it (there might be a few caveats here which I’ll talk about later).
Players who plays 52 games in a year and trying for the Gold challenge cannot afford to hope that they will find a game that surprises them. I suspect that some of us “convinced” ourselves that a game was more surprising than it was just to complete this category.
Now, let’s look at MeowZeDung suggestion:
#-1. A game with a gripping opening hook
#-2. A game with a great plot twist
#-3. A game with a shocking ending
Usage of the words “gripping”, “great”, “shocking” makes those categories subjective. If MeowZeDung suggested the category “A Game with a plot twist” than that is probably okay. You can research for a game with a plot twist – because the fact that there is a plot twist is not subjective, it’s just might not be a great one.
Saying that, you can probably get away with many subjective categories by not making them personal. Saying something like “A game that is considered to have a shocking ending” might be okay (I really don’t like this, but I’m not the one deciding which categories are okay). If you can point to a discussion where everyone remanence about “how shocking was the ending in game xxxyyy”, then the game might be valid, even if personally you found the ending tepid.
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That's a fair point about subjectivity. For that proposed category I was mostly getting at my desire for more of the challenge to focus on story rather than arbitrary stuff like what letter the game begins with. That said, games are experienced subjectively, which is why folks rate them differently. Most categories should of course be objective, but a small selection being subjective is not a problem IMO.
I do think there is more to chew on with this idea of having some number of categories unable to be planned around. If every category can be planned, then the only real challenge is list curation, budget, and amount of time spent gaming, which isn't a gaming challenge per se, but a planning challenge. Making a small handful of the categories more spontaneous, reactionary, subjective, or whatever word we want to use is a tasty bit of spice that reminds us that games are a fun experience and not just a checklist item. With the tier system, those who don't like these categories can just ignore them anyhow. Otherwise, when you play that game you planned for your zombie category and it ends up having an epic opening hook, you can just shift your list a bit and find a second zombie game if you want.
I do think there is more to chew on with this idea of having some number of categories unable to be planned around. If every category can be planned, then the only real challenge is list curation, budget, and amount of time spent gaming, which isn't a gaming challenge per se, but a planning challenge. Making a small handful of the categories more spontaneous, reactionary, subjective, or whatever word we want to use is a tasty bit of spice that reminds us that games are a fun experience and not just a checklist item. With the tier system, those who don't like these categories can just ignore them anyhow. Otherwise, when you play that game you planned for your zombie category and it ends up having an epic opening hook, you can just shift your list a bit and find a second zombie game if you want.
4 Yrs✓#
GreenStarfish
4 Yrs✓#
I like having a couple of categories that can't be planned around, although that is because I don't get even close to finishing the challenge. However, as a compromise, I suggest that these more subjective challenges could be grouped together with objective challenges, so people can choose which one they want to complete.
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Ok this has been the 1st year I participate in the challenge and while I'm just 15 games away of completing it might not be able to, as what bgalon says its true 50 games is quite "a challenge" for some of us as life gets in the way even though I started since january. For me it has been really fun, helped me get motivated to play more, discover new games that would not normally play, replay other games, and overall try to decrease the backlog while having fun.
The tiers idea is great, the more specific the description the better as for some of us english is not our primary language (although the Romero and the milk expression I understood them right away) would like most categories for next year challenge to be able to plan in advance but a few subjective ones are totally ok, one thing to consider is to maybe group them as optional with a more objective one.
So far the category list seems fine, while doing this year's challenge thought on some ideas for challenges for next year to check out, take, discard, change, I know is a long list as I wrote it throughout the year so here it is:
The tiers idea is great, the more specific the description the better as for some of us english is not our primary language (although the Romero and the milk expression I understood them right away) would like most categories for next year challenge to be able to plan in advance but a few subjective ones are totally ok, one thing to consider is to maybe group them as optional with a more objective one.
So far the category list seems fine, while doing this year's challenge thought on some ideas for challenges for next year to check out, take, discard, change, I know is a long list as I wrote it throughout the year so here it is:
51-1. Game you got for free but had already purchased (yeah ps+, epic store, gog give aways, etc. or games like Final Fantasy Dissidia NT which for a time was a purchase and then got a free to play model)
51-2 Game Deluxe/Gold, GOTY, Ultimate or Collector Edition
51-3 Game with Several DLCs or editions but only the base version (for example The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim, DOA6 or the Sims)
51-4 Game with zero DLC, patches (They got it right and complete the initial time, it basically amounts to "play an old game" like NoOne pointed out)
52-1 Game in a language you don't understand, or that doesn't have a localization to your language or to english.
52-2 Game with spoken dialogs in your native tongue (Like Resident Evil 4 to me was surprising to hear the zombies/plagues speaking in spanish).
53-1 Game platform exclusive (only on X Console, X PC OS, handheld, mobile, etc. like God of War Ascension in PS3)
53-2. A Game only available in gaming niche platforms: Linux, MacOS, Arcade cabinet
53-3 Game available virtually everywhere and currently (PC(Windows, linux, Mac), PS5, XBOX SeriesS/X, Switch, Mobile/Browser?)
53-4. Virtually unobtainable in its original platform (Currently on dead platform? for example God of War Betrayal, Silent Hill the Arcade, )
54-1. Mobile casual game
54-2. Hardcore competitive game, esports game? (Multiplayer Competitive FPS, Fighting game, TCG, MOBA, battle royal, battle arena, etc.)
55. BONUS game referencing holydays/festivities, try to play it as close to the celebration time as possible
1. A game that features religion, gods, mythology (the catholic Holy Week, islamic Ramadan and hindu Chaitra Navratri are around march-april, also march for ancient romans was the month of Mars/Ares the god of war)
2. A game that features vacations, exotic locations, travel, the beach (around mid year)
3. A spooky game on Halloween (october-november)
4. A game about endings, new beginnings or family wholesome game (Thanks giving, november-december, new year)
56-1. Fanmade Game (like Dota, LoL, Mugens) or a game mod like the ones in The Elder Scrolls Skyrim 5 (Thieves Guild, Falskaar - wyrmstooth - Enderal - The Wheels Of Lull - Helgen Reborn -Legacy of the Dragonborn - The Forgotten City)
56-2 Original of the fanmade Game or Mod (Warcraft3, Capcom vs SNK, KoF 98, TESV Skyrim, etc.)
57-1. A game with all Trophies/Achievements (Platinum)
57-2. A game with zero Trophies/Achievements (old game emulated?)
58-1. Game with Mixed to Negative Reviews in Metacritic or such
58-2. Game with favorable to Critical Acclaim in Metacritic or such
59-1. Origin of populous videogame franchise (+10 games)
59-2. Latest entry of populous videogame franchise (+10 games)
60-1. Couch Coop Game (Resident Evil 5, Trine) Cooptimus
60-2. Online Coop via internet or LAN (DarkSouls, Journey) cooptimus
61. 2nd hand, borrowed game, rented or in another's account/platform
62-1. Open/Closed Beta Test -
62-2. Demo/Trial version - Silent Hill PT, Final Fantasy XVI
62-3. Early/Anticipated Access - (Stormgate, Hades II, Palworld)
62-4 The released game of either the beta, demo, early access if it does release in 2025
63-1. Game rated for kids (ESRB E/E10+/T PEGI 3,7,12)
63-2. Game rated mature (ESRB M/A, PEGI 16/18)
63-3. Game unrated or pending rating.
64. Educational / Learning game
65-1. Game Install size <100MB
65-2. Game install size > 100GB (Yeah some games nowadays are that big)
66-1. Game with very long name +25 Chars (Well I had it like this but +13 is fine)
66-2. Game with name starting with J or Q or Y not counting "The" article for example The Quarry (I know there is already starting with Q but checking my game list this are the lowest count of games so to give a little bit more room to other games)
66-3. Game with different name depending on world region (Resident Evil vs Biohazzard, Megaman vs Rockman, FF3 vs FF6)
67-1. A Game within a game (Like Final Fight within Street Fighter 6, or Gwent within the Witcher 3, Blitzball within FFX)
67-2. The main game outside the game (SF6, The Witcher 3, FFX)
68-. Game not playable offline even though it should be (GTA, Assassin's Creed, etc.)
69-1. A Game on recommended spec or better
69-2 A Game on minimum or below specs (This is mostly in PC where you can change some parameters to be able to run games in older hardware or it could be a game with all the settings in minimum)
70. A Game with at least 2 different camera perspectives/angles 2D, 2.5D, 3D or a 1st, 3rd person, Top Down/Tower view, Isometric, Zoom perspective, Free Camera Move (Age of Mythology, FIFA, Elder Scrolls, VTM: Bloodlines)
71. A Game that features a form of perma-death (Fire Emblem, Baldur's Gate)
72. A Game with good Accessibility features (Localization, removing quick time events, etc. Can I play that?)
73-1. Game of the Year (past years or current nominee, The Game Awards)
73-2 Worst Game Ever (a game featured on AVGN or on Wikipedia list of worst games)
74. A game with grey or red ratings in HLTB
75-1. Game that managed to get to you in a emotional level (Scared you, made you laugh, cry, frustrate you anger/scream/rage quit, nostalgic)
75-2. Game that manage to really interest you intellectually (Cool what if concept, blow your mind moment, reflection on society problems and solutions)
76-1. A game that is a re-imagening, or spiritual successor to other (I think this is already covered in current list for example Silent Hill Shattered Memories, Callisto Protocol)
76-2. The original game of the reimagening/remake/spiritual successor to
77. A game with a critical technical flaw, bug, glitch not officially fixed during your playthrough (Like Silent Hill Homecoming)
78-1. A game developed in foreign studio of your birth country
78-2. A game developed in studio of your birth country
79. A Game your parents/someone in your family who doesn't regularly play videogames really liked.
80-1. A game developed in one 3rd party game engines proprietary or not (Unreal Engine, Unity, Godot)
80-2. A game developed in an in-house, private game engine. (Like Urban Chaos)
81. A Highly Controversial Game at the time of its release (As in banned in at least one country like Mortal Kombat, Manhunt)
82. A ported game (originally released on a platform and eventually adapted/ported to others)
83-1. A Game that survived development Hell (+7 years)
83-2. A game from a defunct dev studio (Troika, Sillicon Knights, Team Silent, Team Ico, etc.)
83-3. A game abandoned/Cancelled that has a playable version (Rising Thunder?)
84. A game with DRM or anti-cheater system
85. A game with a non-default controller for that platform (for example a PC game with an Xbox controller instead of mouse/keyboard or a Playstation game with an arcade fighstick instead if a dual-shock pad)
86.An innovative game at the time of release or a game part of a game series which launched a whole gaming genre (soulslike, roguelike, fighting games, FPS, RTS, JRPG, MOBA, MMO, survival horror, visual novel, point and click adventure, platformer, etc.)
87. An infinite game. You could keep playing even after the main story is done or the credits roll.
88-1. A game with a happy ending
88-2. A game with a sad ending, the bad guys win.
89. A game with celebrities from other media (voice over by a movies actor like God of War, script by renown book writer like Elder Ring)
90-1. A game in max difficulty (hard or nightmare mode)
90-2. A game in min difficulty (easy mode)
91-1. A game in physical format only, does it exist?(disc, cartridge),
91-2. A game in digital format only (download from store)
92. A game you are involved beyond just playing because you made it or helped in development or improvement (writing internet reviews, guides, participating in online forums about its problems/bugs or how to fix them or even fixing them, modding, participated in tournaments or events around the game, participated in QA, beta test, coding, design, made or posted artwork, memes, fan-fiction based on said game)
93. A game which started as a video game but transcended to other media and has at least a movie, a book, a comic and a tv series (Like Tomb Raider, Street Fighter)
5 Yrs✓#
NoOne5 Yrs✓#
51-4 Game with zero DLC, patches (They got it right and complete the initial time)Games with 0 patches? I can't recall a single game like that.
54-2. Hardcore competitive game, esports game? (Multiplayer Competitive FPS, Fighting game, TCG, MOBA, battle royal, battle arena, etc.)
How's someone supposed to mark one as completed?
55-1. A game that features religion, gods, mythology (the catholic Holy Week, islamic Ramadan and hindu Chaitra Navatri are around march-april)That overlaps a fair bit with challenge 19. Also I was so confused for a second, I think you mean Navratri 😭.
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Games with 0 patches? I can't recall a single game like that.
Yeah I'm a little bit old as I do remember a time were that was the norm, expansions and patches didn't exist so games were thoroughly tested (they were somewhat less complex) then released, if they needed to be changed or to add new things then they made a new release (new game) as the form of distribution was for the most part physical (disks, cartridges) so I think that for this challenge the idea would be to play an old game that satisfies such criteria (so to be on the safe side most games released prior/during the 90s or you would have to do the research on case by case that could be bothersome).
How's someone supposed to mark one as completed?
For the competitive game I think you can setup your own goal of fulfillment, for example, during this year's challenges I played 2 competitive games Magic the Gathering Arena a TCG and Vampire The Masquerade Bloodhunt a Battle Royale, for the 1st one my goal was to reach platinum rank to mark it as completed for the second one my 1st goal was to end a solo match as the only survivor but as luck would have it I managed this relatively quickly so changed the goal to complete all the main quests and side quests which for this game are totally optional and most players don't even know they exist.
That overlaps a fair bit with challenge 19.
Yeah several of the proposed challenges might overlap (for example the one of long name or the one that includes the starting letter Q) as I made this list throughout the year was adding possible challenges but have not curated it, thought best to share it so the community can take what seems fun/challenging and discard or change what not.
Also I was so confused for a second, I think you mean Navratri 😭.
Yeah sorry from all the names of the goddess (Navratri Nauratha Nauratri Navarathri Navaratra Naraate Navratan Naurata Nauraat Durga Puja Sharad Utsav Dashain) misspelled the one I chose to write it is now corrected.
5 Yrs✓#
NoOne5 Yrs✓#
so I think that for this challenge the idea would be to play an old game
Doesn't that make it fairly redundant considering that it basically ends up becoming the "Play a really old game" challenge?
About the multiplayer games, yeah, I don't think most people are gonna be up for setting a goal for themselves and trying to grind for it considering that a lot of people have raised the point of 50 games an year already being a pretty daunting task. Adding a multiplayer game to the mix makes that nigh impossible for most people.
Yeah sorry from all the names of the goddess (Navratri Nauratha Nauratri Navarathri Navaratra Naraate Navratan Naurata Nauraat Durga Puja Sharad Utsav Dashain) misspelled the one I chose to write it is now corrected.
They're festivals, not the name of the goddess 😭. And Navratri and Durga Puja are pretty different.
Also all the variations of navratri you've listed are pretty much the same word. That many spellings exist because romanising hindi and indian languages to english is weird due to all the dialects and minor regional variations exist in each of our languages. Also sanskrit stuff
Nav = Nau = Nine, Ratri = Raate = Nights. Nauratha is sanskrit iirc, the rest are in hindi and are just different ways of romanising the same word, though i might be wrong, and im pretty sure Navratna is nine gems and has nothing to do with navratri? Pretty sure Dashain is maithili or smthing for Dussehra?
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Doesn't that make it fairly redundant considering that it basically ends up becoming the "Play a really old game" challenge?
Yes it might so that one could be just discarded
About the multiplayer games, yeah, I don't think most people are gonna be up for setting a goal for themselves and trying to grind for it considering that a lot of people have raised the point of 50 games an year already being a pretty daunting task. Adding a multiplayer game to the mix makes that nigh impossible for most people.
Correct, but as it stands right now I think the "too many games problem" is already neatly solved with the tiers idea (bronze 20 games, silver 35 games, gold 50 games, platinum +50) so everyone can choose which tier to aim for and if time allow it then go for a higher one, the thing is, we have only 29 challenges so missing another 21 to get to the 50 games of the gold tier and the bonuses for platinum so that is where I think some of my suggestions might fit.
They're festivals, not the name of the goddess 😭. And Navratri and Durga Puja are pretty different.
Oh yeah I got it all wrong for some reason thought those were the names of the goddess of the festival but thanks for clarifying, I got those from the article in Wikipedia that supposedly referenced the same festivity, you seem very knowledgeable about the subject and might be able correct/clarify said article.
12 Yrs♥F$✓#
bgalon12 Yrs♥F$✓#
I'm not going to nitpick valcrist73 list. I think 60%-70% of suggestions are not usable for the challenge, but that means there are a good 5 to 10 categories that are. He made an admirably long list and I salute him for this.
5 Yrs✓#
NoOne5 Yrs✓#
I wasn't trying to nitpick 😅 There's definitely a lot of good ideas on valcrist's list, I was just trying to talk about a few that wouldn't work or seemed redundant to me.
A few that I think are cool are
- Game in a language you don't understand - this could also be modified to be something like a game that has to do with a fictional language, Like tunic?
- Game with spoken dialogs in your native tongue
- Game that features vacations
- Fanmade Game - could even be about a book or a show, yada yada
- A good and bad game (the metacritic category - something like, a game above that which's got a score above 100-X and one below 100-X?
- The franchise ones
- Game rated for particular ages
- Educational game
- A Game that features a form of perma-death
- Sprititual Successor
- A Game that survived development Hell / Defunct dev - that essentially becomes devs that survived and those that didnt
5 Yrs✓#
NoOne5 Yrs✓#
I'm not especially knowledgeable about the topic, I'm just from the region of India where Navratri's celebrated, and I speak/understand the languages I mentioned (except for sanskrit) 🫡.
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Thanks bgalon, yeah now we need to figure out which ones, I know checking that list is bothersome even for me hehe, so, after giving a closer look to the current list, the overlapping suggestions and the feedback from NoOne will be posting some new thoughts and probably a full proposal to complete the 50 challenges of the gold tier
Current Challenge List change suggestions and questions
7-2. A demake of a game (Does Warcraft III Reforged qualify as a demake? can someone give examples please?)
10-3. A game that starts with the letter Q. would change it to: A game that starts with the letter Q, J or Y not counting the article "the" (as otherwise in my case only Quake games would qualify but well may be it will be time for some Quake)
19. A game with a real or fictional religion. This one would be included in the proposed BONUS so would replace it with:
19-1. A game that features a language you don't understand, could be a fictional in-game language (like Tunic, Shadow of the Colossus, The Sims or an obscure Japanese game without translation unless you understand Japanese of course)
19-2. A game with spoken dialogs in your native tongue
22. A game where you play as an anti-hero or villain. Just to make a little bit different from this year challenge maybe: 22. A game where you can play the evil route like Baldur's Gate, Vampyr, Infamous, KOTOR, Mass Effect
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Ok that yeah so will be posting a new version a little bit more grounded prioritizing those that seem better, also leaving some room for a few subjective/hard to plan challenges like the ones MeowZeDung proposed related to the story/writing aspect of games as I think a few maybe 5? would be nice.
I'm not especially knowledgeable about the topic, I'm just from the region of India where Navratri's celebrated, and I speak/understand the languages I mentioned (except for sanskrit) 🫡.
Oh that's cool, so you have firsthand experience/knowledge of said celebration! so indeed you are more qualified to speak of such than any one I personally know hehe.
5 Yrs✓
MKami5 Yrs✓
I just feel like commenting on the native language voice line thing, that is incredibly simple or can be difficult depending on which language. In the case of Swedish, I cannot think of a single relevant game that has spoken Swedish in it besides the few that have been dubbed to Swedish after the fact and then the challenge just feels a little pointless and limiting in my opinion.
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Oh yeah you might be right most games with dialog I would think are either in english or japanese so if that is your language that would be fairly easy, I know that I originally wrote that when was playing Resident Evil 4 and herd the enemies speaking in spanish and it was not a localization thing but as the game was intended, but yeah the idea was to search for a game with such feature it might be as you say pretty hard or even impossible in some languages, so at the end might be extremely limiting so maybe it can be changed for any language that you do understand but that is not so common as english/japanese and not only spoken but also written or it can just be discarded maybe just leave it with the language you don't understand without the optional.
I cannot think of a single relevant game that has spoken Swedish in it besides the few that have been dubbed to Swedish after the fact
I think the Magicka games were spoken in swedish, not sure if relevant enough but I played the first one with a friend and was extremely fun.